Discussion:
"Insert > Float > Figure Wrap Float" does not float by default
(too old to reply)
Scott Kostyshak
2014-10-12 19:58:11 UTC
Permalink
If you go to Insert > Float > Figure Wrap Float, it does not float by
default. The two "Float" words in that process led me to assume that
it would wrap by default. One must go to settings and click on "Allow
floating". I was surprised by this because it is different from how we
handle the other floats.

A quick look at the Embedded Objects manual provided no explanation
that the floating needs to be set manually.

It is not a matter of respecting the defaults, because the figure
placement is a required argument and that is what determines the
floating.

I took a look at the wrapfig manual [1] and I see

<<
The ability to float is somewhat restricted, and you will get best
results by giving
exact manual placement, but floating is more convenient while revising
the document.
Any changes to the formatting can ruin your manual positioning so you
should adjust
the placement just before printing a final copy
But one can always get better results with manual placement of floats
(assuming everything else is constant), so I don't think this is any
different here.

Any thoughts?

Scott

[1] http://texdoc.net/texmf-dist/doc/latex/wrapfig/wrapfig-doc.pdf
Alfredo Braunstein
2014-10-12 20:42:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Kostyshak
If you go to Insert > Float > Figure Wrap Float, it does not float by
default. The two "Float" words in that process led me to assume that
it would wrap by default. One must go to settings and click on "Allow
floating". I was surprised by this because it is different from how we
handle the other floats.
A quick look at the Embedded Objects manual provided no explanation
that the floating needs to be set manually.
It is not a matter of respecting the defaults, because the figure
placement is a required argument and that is what determines the
floating.
I took a look at the wrapfig manual [1] and I see
<<
The ability to float is somewhat restricted, and you will get best
results by giving
exact manual placement, but floating is more convenient while revising
the document.
Any changes to the formatting can ruin your manual positioning so you
should adjust
the placement just before printing a final copy
But one can always get better results with manual placement of floats
(assuming everything else is constant), so I don't think this is any
different here.
Any thoughts?
In my very uninformed opinion (never used them), I agree that it would
be more consistent to float by default like the other float insets.
Moreover, it could be called "Figure Wrap" instead of "Figure Wrap
Float", as it is already in the Float Sub-menu. Same thing for Table
Wrap.
Unrelated, why with no open document the Float menu contains (greyed
out) only Figure Wrap Float and Table Wrap Float and not the other
floats?

A/
Scott Kostyshak
2014-10-12 22:00:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alfredo Braunstein
Post by Scott Kostyshak
If you go to Insert > Float > Figure Wrap Float, it does not float by
default. The two "Float" words in that process led me to assume that
it would wrap by default. One must go to settings and click on "Allow
floating". I was surprised by this because it is different from how we
handle the other floats.
A quick look at the Embedded Objects manual provided no explanation
that the floating needs to be set manually.
It is not a matter of respecting the defaults, because the figure
placement is a required argument and that is what determines the
floating.
I took a look at the wrapfig manual [1] and I see
<<
The ability to float is somewhat restricted, and you will get best
results by giving
exact manual placement, but floating is more convenient while revising
the document.
Any changes to the formatting can ruin your manual positioning so you
should adjust
the placement just before printing a final copy
But one can always get better results with manual placement of floats
(assuming everything else is constant), so I don't think this is any
different here.
Any thoughts?
In my very uninformed opinion (never used them), I agree that it would
be more consistent to float by default like the other float insets.
Moreover, it could be called "Figure Wrap" instead of "Figure Wrap
Float", as it is already in the Float Sub-menu. Same thing for Table
Wrap.
I like your suggestion for the name change.
Post by Alfredo Braunstein
Unrelated, why with no open document the Float menu contains (greyed
out) only Figure Wrap Float and Table Wrap Float and not the other
floats?
Good find. I think this is because of a commit I made that enables the
submenus even if all items are greyed out:

commit d449e7e64e1f074fcd9621f3675796cbac9d2656
Author: Scott Kostyshak <***@lyx.org>
Date: Fri Feb 21 10:26:36 2014 -0500

Submenus now expand even if all items are disabled

As stated in the Apple HIG[1] (via JMarc):

Ensure that a submenu’s title is undimmed even when all its commands
are unavailable. As with menu titles, it’s important for users to be
able to view a submenu’s contents, even if none of them are
available in the current context.

[1]
https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/AppleHIGuidelines/Menus/Menus.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000356-TP6

It seems this change brought to surface the issue that you found
(before, the submenu would just not expand). I can look into fixing
this. I should also check whether there are any other similar cases. I
also ran the command in the same directory as the lyx binary:

$ rm ~/.lyx
$ PATH=''" ./lyx

Then even if I start a new document, the other floats are not present.
This might be a separate (configure) issue.

If there are no other opinions on this in the next few days, I will
make the following changes:

1. Change "Figure Wrap Float" to "Figure Wrap" and "Table Wrap Float"
to "Table Wrap".
2. Change the wraps to float by default.
3. The other float items should be shown (as greyed out) when no
document is open.

Thanks for the thoughts, Alfredo.

Scott
Alfredo Braunstein
2014-10-13 12:39:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Kostyshak
Good find. I think this is because of a commit I made that enables the
Cool, this was indeed a good (overdue) change :-).
Post by Scott Kostyshak
If there are no other opinions on this in the next few days, I will
1. Change "Figure Wrap Float" to "Figure Wrap" and "Table Wrap Float"
to "Table Wrap".
2. Change the wraps to float by default.
3. The other float items should be shown (as greyed out) when no
document is open.
I won't object. It would be nice if someone that uses them regularly
chimes in, though.
Post by Scott Kostyshak
Thanks for the thoughts, Alfredo.
My pleasure!

A/
Scott Kostyshak
2014-10-13 17:39:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alfredo Braunstein
Post by Scott Kostyshak
If there are no other opinions on this in the next few days, I will
1. Change "Figure Wrap Float" to "Figure Wrap" and "Table Wrap Float"
to "Table Wrap".
2. Change the wraps to float by default.
3. The other float items should be shown (as greyed out) when no
document is open.
I won't object. It would be nice if someone that uses them regularly
chimes in, though.
Yes, more opinions would be nice. There is some good feedback in the
following message supporting the change, from a regular user of those
insets (in Spanish):
http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-***@lists.lyx.org/msg00061.html

Scott
Alfredo Braunstein
2014-10-13 18:40:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Kostyshak
Yes, more opinions would be nice. There is some good feedback in the
following message supporting the change, from a regular user of those
Sold, to the spanish-speaking gentleman with the appropriate feedback!

Alfredo
aparsloe
2014-10-13 20:32:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Kostyshak
1. Change "Figure Wrap Float" to "Figure Wrap" and "Table Wrap Float"
to "Table Wrap".
2. Change the wraps to float by default.
3. The other float items should be shown (as greyed out) when no
document is open.
Thanks for the thoughts, Alfredo.
Scott
I use figure wrap floats extensively. For example, I have a 600 page
document averaging about 1 figure per page, the majority of which are
figure wrap floats. I use them in quite a different way from pure figure
floats. The wrapped figures are associated with specific paragraphs in
specific sections or subsections. If latex doesn't allow the specific
placement, a number of options follow: I try adjusting the line span of
the figure or the column width. Or I try placing them with the
preceding or following paragraph. Another strategy is to combine two (or
three) into a pure figure float and try to ensure that that is in the
vicinity of the relevant paragraphs. Only as a last resort do I float
the wrapped figure. The floating of wrapped figures seems to me a
secondary "last resort" property. Ordinary figure floats are available
for floating. Wrapped figures are associated with specific paragraphs,
and should, if possible stay there. Hence I think the current behaviour
is the preferred one, where the floating option is available, but needs
to be specifically selected.

Andrew
Scott Kostyshak
2014-10-13 20:58:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by aparsloe
Post by Scott Kostyshak
1. Change "Figure Wrap Float" to "Figure Wrap" and "Table Wrap Float"
to "Table Wrap".
2. Change the wraps to float by default.
3. The other float items should be shown (as greyed out) when no
document is open.
Thanks for the thoughts, Alfredo.
Scott
I use figure wrap floats extensively. For example, I have a 600 page
document averaging about 1 figure per page, the majority of which are figure
wrap floats. I use them in quite a different way from pure figure floats.
The wrapped figures are associated with specific paragraphs in specific
sections or subsections. If latex doesn't allow the specific placement, a
number of options follow: I try adjusting the line span of the figure or the
column width. Or I try placing them with the preceding or following
paragraph. Another strategy is to combine two (or three) into a pure figure
float and try to ensure that that is in the vicinity of the relevant
paragraphs. Only as a last resort do I float the wrapped figure. The
floating of wrapped figures seems to me a secondary "last resort" property.
Ordinary figure floats are available for floating. Wrapped figures are
associated with specific paragraphs, and should, if possible stay there.
Hence I think the current behaviour is the preferred one, where the floating
option is available, but needs to be specifically selected.
Andrew
Thanks for the detailed explanation, Andrew! I will leave things as
they are for now then, until we get more opinions.

Do you agree though, that from a user-interface point of view that
something could be improved? When I see float two times in the process
Insert > Float > Figure Wrap Float I do not think "this thing could be
configured to float". I think "this thing floats".

Scott
aparsloe
2014-10-14 03:29:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Kostyshak
Post by aparsloe
Post by Scott Kostyshak
1. Change "Figure Wrap Float" to "Figure Wrap" and "Table Wrap Float"
to "Table Wrap".
2. Change the wraps to float by default.
3. The other float items should be shown (as greyed out) when no
document is open.
Thanks for the thoughts, Alfredo.
Scott
I use figure wrap floats extensively. For example, I have a 600 page
document averaging about 1 figure per page, the majority of which are figure
wrap floats. I use them in quite a different way from pure figure floats.
The wrapped figures are associated with specific paragraphs in specific
sections or subsections. If latex doesn't allow the specific placement, a
number of options follow: I try adjusting the line span of the figure or the
column width. Or I try placing them with the preceding or following
paragraph. Another strategy is to combine two (or three) into a pure figure
float and try to ensure that that is in the vicinity of the relevant
paragraphs. Only as a last resort do I float the wrapped figure. The
floating of wrapped figures seems to me a secondary "last resort" property.
Ordinary figure floats are available for floating. Wrapped figures are
associated with specific paragraphs, and should, if possible stay there.
Hence I think the current behaviour is the preferred one, where the floating
option is available, but needs to be specifically selected.
Andrew
Thanks for the detailed explanation, Andrew! I will leave things as
they are for now then, until we get more opinions.
Do you agree though, that from a user-interface point of view that
something could be improved? When I see float two times in the process
Insert > Float > Figure Wrap Float I do not think "this thing could be
configured to float". I think "this thing floats".
Scott
Yes. Figure Wrap (Optional Float)? (In fact the whole Insert menu seems
somewhat haphazard to me.)

Andrew

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